Markup Languages Books
Related Subjects: XML SGML XHTML SMIL HTML
More Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101

Used price: $2.88

Good for beginners and advancedReview Date: 2002-03-02
Good for beginners and advancedReview Date: 2002-03-02
I learned the basics of XHTML very quickly. Now, I am experienced web page builder and don't write codes anymore (I use web page building Applications), but believe me, I open that book almost everyday to refresh my memory.
Bloated and ConfusingReview Date: 2001-08-23
Not a good book for cross-browser code.Review Date: 2001-11-26
On the down side, why would anyone write an XHTML book w/ out concentration on cross-browser functionality? Many of the examples were solutions for just IE or for just Netscape. The whole point of validated XHTML is to reach the widest possible audience which means coding to a defined standard; browser specific code is mostly pointless. Also, as someone mentioned, the use of deprecated tags in examples caused me to be wary of the code throughout the whole book. Finally, why wait till page 503 to cover CSS? That should have been demonstrated early on to discourage the use of inline formatting within pages. And the CSS coverage, a chapter crucial to web development (ie, separation of data and presentation), was weak.
I guess for someone starting out it's ok to use this as a guide. But I urge anyone reading this book to avoid the use of deprecated tags or your web pages will render different ways in difft browsers.
Excellent for Beginners/Great for ExperiencedReview Date: 2001-06-16

Used price: $14.48

Valuable yet unevenReview Date: 2007-11-29
The first two chapters of "Beginning HTML with CSS and XHTML: Modern Guide and Reference" satisfies the requirements of a beginner's book quite well. The language is clear, concise, and devoid of jargon. The remainder of the book is quite uneven, probably due to the publisher's decision to employ two authors for the book. Craig Cook (the author of chapters 1, 2, 4, 5, 8 and 11) is more than capable of communicating technical information using plain language. His prose is concise and accurate, yet he maintains a gentle, witty tone that is ideal for making the neophyte feel at ease with new material. David Schultz is much less adept at maintaining the `beginner's mind.' His prose is often convoluted and awkward, making it difficult to decipher the terms he attempts to explain.
Chapter 4 is an excellent overview of the basic structure of a semantically structured web document. For someone looking for an introduction to HTML and CSS fundamentals, the book is worth buying for this chapter alone. It would also serve a more experienced hand as a concise guide to the proper use of HTML elements.
Chapters 3, 6, and 7 all have a common weakness: the author fails to provide clear definitions and explanations for terms. An example, from p. 164: "charoff: Specifies in pixels or as a percentage how far the alignment should be adjusted to the first character to align on. This requires the use of the align attribute with the value set as char." Contrast this definition with one penned by Cook, p.211: "disabled='disabled': When present, disables the control so that it cannot receive focus and its value cannot be modified. Many browsers will display disabled controls a `grayed-out' state. The value of a disabled control is not submitted."
It appears that Mr. Cook devoted a considerable amount of thought to writing his definitions, while Mr. Schultz was content to restate the official specifications. Cook takes the time to carefully explain a term, giving examples of how it is used in the real world. His definitions & explanations indicate a deep and nuanced understanding of the subject material.
Chapter 10 presents an introduction to JavaScript. Appearing out of place in a book on beginning HTML and CSS, one chapter on JavaScript is simply inadequate to explain even the rudiments of this powerful (but often misused) tool. This space could have been better used in covering CSS positioning in more detail and providing more visual examples.
Chapter 11 is a solid walkthrough in putting together a basic website, from the design process through to final markup. This chapter pulls together what has been presented in the rest of the book and would certainly enable a beginner to create an attractive & functional website from scratch.
Finally, the book provides four appendices. The usefulness of these appendices varies widely. Appendix A is an XHTML 1.o Strict reference: it would be useful but for a complete lack of examples. Appendix B covers color names and hex values: does anyone actually use these? HTML colors are notoriously hideous and their use should be avoided. Appendix C covers special characters: this is a good reference to have. Appendix D covers CSS browser support: again, a useful reference.
But why is there no glossary? A glossary of terms is ESSENTIAL in a beginner's book. Please, leave out the scary HTML colors and give us a glossary!
Despite its shortcomings, "Beginning HTML with CSS and XHTML: Modern Guide and Reference" is a useful book for a person needing to understand the fundamental concepts and application of HTML and CSS. The publishers would have served their readers better by providing a consistent authorial voice throughout the book, including more thorough coverage of CSS positioning and layout, and providing more high-quality graphical examples. This book is a good bet for the beginner who wants to learn the fundamentals of HTML and CSS to create well-structured and usable websites.
Horrifically inappropriate for a true beginnerReview Date: 2007-09-21
This book is only useful for balancing wobbly table legs and for teaching writers how NOT to write a reference work / tutorial.
I bought it based on the title, not the contents. (It was shrink-wrapped at a brick-and-mortar bookstore) Had I seen a sample of the text, I would have reshelved it hurriedly or offered a dime to buy it for firewood.
As a reference work for web designers, or a tutorial for beginners, it ranks below any other book I've seen on the subject.
APPENDICES:
1) The promised CSS is scattered throughout the book, with no CSS reference guide in the appendices.
2) The appendices for HTML and XHTML describe each tag's parameters in such a way as to leave one wondering how to use them, and what each tag and parameter does.
EXAMPLES:
The authors clearly did not proofread the version that reached the printers, or the editors made unexpected, inexcusable last-minute cutbacks. This is most obvious in photo captions that ask us (unbelievably) to find the differently colored text in identical B&W screenshots (p. 143), and in examples of JPEG artifacts/compression (p. 108) and pixelating (p. 106) that are unnoticeable because the example photographs have been shrunken far too much or carelessly created.
INDEX:
Carelessly assembled, neglecting common terms like "mouseover".
LANGUAGE:
Professorial pointification and obfuscation rather than real advice to beginners or helpful reference for experts. Reads like a fillibuster performed by a student defending his masters' dissertation.
For example, what beginner could make use of this entry in the appendices?
(p. 353)
"The param element allows you to set run-time values for objects that have been inserted into a document. Required attributes: type: specifies the MIME type of the resource specified in the value attribute when the valuetype attribute is set to ref; value: specifies the actual value associated with the parameter"
...and so on.
Sentences are needlessly wordy, overly technical, and filled with passive verbs. In short, the writing bores and frustrates more than an afternoon spent with an enthusiastic life insurance salesman.
For example, from page 352:
Concise and with good examplesReview Date: 2007-08-01
Building a strong foundation with HTMLReview Date: 2007-10-10
Chapter 1 is our quick history lesson and introduction to HTML. They give background and insight into the goals and purposes of HTML, and how these were shifted during the browser wars and the battle for browser dominance and market share. They introduce the different versions of HTML available, and what they mean for your markup and the rendering inside of the browser. As CSS is discussed, there is also a discussion on keeping a clean separation of content and presentation. Chapter 1 lets us see the big picture and evolution of HTML.
Chapter 2 builds the foundation for the rest of the chapters. This chapter discusses the basics of XHTML and CSS. The building blocks discussed here will be addressed in each and every subsequent chapter of the book. Things such as tags, elements, attributes, and formatting. We are also given a snapshot view of what comprises an XHTML document, the doctype, the HTML element, and the document tree. All of this plays into understanding the fundamentals of CSS, cascade, and inheritance. We now have our history lesson and basic constructs in place, it's time to take a look at the rest of the pieces to the puzzle.
Chapters 3 and 4 cover a large territory. From constructing a useable head section, to walking step by step through many of the available HTML elements available to you as you put your content together. With discussion of each element, you are given detailed instructions of how and when it should be used, with an exhaustive list of its available attributes. CSS is briefly discussed, but will be re-introduced in a later chapter after we have our content constructed.
Chapter 5 is all about images. This chapter gives a brief primer on how digital images work, and what are the formats you can use within your content. Images can serve different purposes: icons, decoration, background, or context. Each of these are discussed with information on how to place them accordingly with CSS or the img tag.
Chapter 6 is all about linking. You are introduced to the a tag, its available attributes, and how you can create different types of links. Textual links, anchor links, and linking an image are all discussed.
Chapter 7 is all about tables. Despite what you may hear from others, tables have a very good semantic use in regards to tabular data (who would have thought?). However, tables are also misunderstood in relation to the tags and attributes. It is important to build tables with accessibility in mind, and this chapter goes over some of the elements that haven't received as much exposure. These include, but are not limited to: caption, colgroup, and tbody. This chapter will give you the information necessary to build a powerful and semantically rich table.
Chapter 8 discusses all of the little details to building a usable and accessible form. Just as with tables, there are some elements that are often forgotten about when building forms. This chapter does a great job of covering all of the necessary components for a form, and how to structure them. Form elements are rendered with the underlying operating system, so the end of this chapter discusses CSS and some of the ways you can spruce up the look of your forms. This is to be used with caution, as forms are rendered differently in each browser.
Chapters 9 and 10 discuss the other 2 pieces of the trinity of the front end: CSS and JavaScript. These chapters are meant to be brief primers, and will most likely whet your appetite to learn more about each aspect. They are also placed here to give you a good foundation as the final chapter will roll everything up into a case study.
Chapter 11 is the end of the journey. What good would the book be if you couldn't put what you have learned into practice? This chapter creates the fictional Spaghetti & Cruft website (you have to read the book to find out the meaning of the name). This chapter starts with the design process, moves to the building process, and then polishes it off by adding enhancements with CSS and JavaScript. The humorous name aside, this chapter is one of the most valuable chapters of the entire book. This final chapter brings the book to a close, and with it leaves you a solid foundation as you continue your journey of building other sites.
Conclusion
Many would argue that they don't need to learn HTML, that is what a WYSIWYG is for. This book shows you the value of understanding the history, the basics, and the semantics of HTML. It is important to note that nothing found in this book is earth-shattering, however, if you are a beginner and new to HTML, this book will give you the proper start you need to begin developing right away. If you are moving away from the reliance of a WYSIWYG, you may be surprised at many of the elements available to you that are covered in this book.
Good for this relative beginnerReview Date: 2007-08-17
What I found is there was no problem understanding this well-presented and clear text. In fact, I much prefer it to the "dummy downed" Head First book. Had I to do it over, this would have been my only purchase.

Used price: $2.95

Required readingReview Date: 2000-05-17
This Book is Aimed at a Limited AudienceReview Date: 2000-02-01
this book does fill a needReview Date: 2000-02-16
One of my main beefs with the book is that it does not really say anything about what XML databases might look like in practice. This is a tall and perhaps unfair order, since we don't yet have standards for XML schemas and query languages. But I have yet to see XML database proponents provide a clear and convincing explanation of why XML is going to be a way to structure stored data as well as a way of transmitting and reformatting data.
a wonderful conection of the three conceptsReview Date: 2000-06-01
Required readingReview Date: 2000-05-17


Wrong approach. Focuses solely on HTML.Review Date: 2002-06-20
A simple, highly practical guide for web designersReview Date: 2002-04-09
Dave's Quick 'n' Easy Web PagesReview Date: 2002-01-22
Definitely a good book for anyone new to creating personal webpages.
Quick is the Operative WordReview Date: 2001-12-05
Rather than load you up with a bunch of theory and technical jargon, Dave Lindsay gives you just what you need to get started. By the end of the first chapter (which is only nine pages), he has you creating your own basic web page. This all with the most basic of word processors (like Simpletext in MAC or Notepad for your PC)!
With information conveniently contained in the back of the book, he even shows you how to obtain software to upload this basic web page, a server to host your site, and how to upload your page -- all for free.
From there, the author guides you through more advanced techniques like adding sound, message banners and even animated images. This is really a lot more than I expected from a "basic" book, especially one that is just over 100 pages.
For web design "newbies" that just want to get their feet wet, this is a great place to start. It's all written in plain English with the bare minimum of technical codes. As you go through the book and each new technique, they are illustrated to demonstrate how it changes your site.
DAVE'S QUICK 'N' EASY is great for the person intimidated by technology or someone that just wants to dive right in, but doesn't know a lot about HTML (the language used to build web pages). For the complete novice or beginner, this book is like running a 100 meter dash. It gets you designing a web page in no time flat.
HTML SimplifiedReview Date: 2002-06-28
I was to be working with a well known web development program and tried as best I could to learn through the tutorials and such. Ha. Let's just say that didn't work out so well. And this program is suppose to make things easy. One of those, "even idiots can use this because this and that are already done for you" type things. But I guess I like doing things the hard way.
And that's where *Dave's Quick 'n' Easy Web Pages* came in. It details in very simple terms HTML coding, showing you what the page would look like in code and also what it would look like in a browser. Things like hyperlinks and how to insert become far less daunting with the instructions in this book.
I don't think that it matters that it was written by a very young man or that the publisher has seen fit to classify it as a young adult text. I found it infinitely more useful and usable than a good deal of the other books I picked up for help.

Used price: $0.91

absolutely fantastic book on SVGReview Date: 2003-06-21
Great Introduction - but not comprehensiveReview Date: 2001-11-27
Great technology, terrible book: lacks scripting, referenceReview Date: 2001-11-13
The code examples will make any programmer cringe, as the same extensive property settings are declared over and over again for related objects. This produces dozens of lines of unmaintainable code where 5 lines of JavaScript would suffice. In fact, there is practically no discussion of generating SVG programmatically using Perl or Javascript. Although there is a chapter on "interactive graphics", it basically covers menus and rollover effects. If you were hoping for something on data-driven graphics, look elsewhere, because this topic is strangely absent from the book.
Worse, external CSS style sheets are only introduced in a desultory way near the end of the book, after hundreds of pages of code examples with the same inline styles declared over and over again and applied to every object individually. The code examples would be many pages shorter, and far more readable and maintainable, had CSS been introduced early and used appropriately.
Finally, there is no reference section. If you are hoping to find (for example) a list of methods and properties for each object, DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK! There are too many shocking omissions to list. One example is that animatable transformations such as scaling are simply not discussed. The author gives an example of a series of animated rectangles, where the sizes are altered by changing the individual width and height attributes. Worse, if you look up "scale" in the index, you'll find an example of a graphical scale (think ruler) where each of the lines is an individual object defined by hand, presumably by cutting and pasting the line of text and changing the x offset!
Unfortunately, at present there is NO adequate book on SVG for programmers. This book, however, is unsuitable even for designers (its primary audience) because it encourages excruciating coding habits and ignores the tremendous possibilities for automating repetitive design tasks.
An interesting blend of Graphics and ProgrammingReview Date: 2001-11-06
SVG, unlike anything you have ever seenReview Date: 2001-10-28
Now imagine the same thing happening in Web graphics. A text-based graphics format, with source open for all to learn. SVG, as an application of XML, brings the potential of data-driven graphics to the Web. The graphic is the data and the data is the graphic, cutting out all middle layers.
This is not a book about pretty pictures, although it is well illustrated. It is code-centric and by necessity focuses on SVG tags and attributes.
The author expertly leads us in easy steps. The book is surprisingly easy to read. The author often changes tempo, removing us for a moment from the code and infusing a relaxed perspective, despite his obvious enthusiasm for this technology.
The author assumes a basic understanding of XML syntax and some knowledge of applied cascading style sheets (CSS). XLink and XPointer are covered only to the extent necessary for linking in SVG, for instance. CSS, designed for XML applications as much as for HTML, is used from the very beginning, displaying once again the ability of CSS to multiply the power and flexibility of any tagging system it is joined to.
The typography of the book, and the modest but effective use of color, contributes to the clarity of the exposition. The beginner should be aware that to follow along in the book, it is necessary to download freely available graphics tools and browser plug-ins almost 7 megabytes in total.
SVG is a graphics format unlike anything you have ever seen. It has not yet taken center stage in Web development -- but it will. Will you be ready or will you be playing catch up?

Used price: $0.82

I've seen betterReview Date: 2000-07-13
Not the bestReview Date: 2000-06-29
Almost as good as the real thingReview Date: 1999-08-26
GREAT Book to give Full-Spectrum PerspectiveReview Date: 1999-02-14
The book is good but don't count on support from e-ZoneReview Date: 1999-02-04
The book is good, but this is really a self-study book. You can't even e-mail e-zone and get a response from them.

Used price: $0.01

Knows what he's talking aboutReview Date: 2005-06-01
Good book.
From A Scrub To A StarReview Date: 2004-12-09
A good book for intermeditate!Review Date: 1997-12-03
The book that started my business..Review Date: 1999-04-10
Good book, but too out of date at this pointReview Date: 1999-09-10
Despite using terms like "hot tips" and "advanced techniques", this book is really a good introduction to HTML in general, covering Fonts, forms, graphics, frames and CGI programs. I found that it was explaining everything very clearly, using examples and illustrations where needed. The problem of course, is that HTML 4 features are missing, which means that there are a lot of neat tricks people are doing on web sites now for which I have to buy yet another book to understand.
Being an overly critical person, I have to mention some "minor" issues like the index being brain-dead (not having "" or "bold" for example) and the Author using tokens like '<' and '>' without explaining them.
Basically, this book USED TO BE good, but Morris should come out with a second edition that covers HTML 4. This book should really be pulled from circulation.

Used price: $0.67

Not very helpful bookReview Date: 2007-05-15
Oh just get it! You will learn something newReview Date: 2007-02-25
This book is not as good as you are lead to believeReview Date: 2007-04-27
Anyways, if you are just learning HTML, get the book. If you have even moderate knowledge, I wouldn't bother, and if you are advanced, just move on to bigger and better books.
All you need to know about (x)html, in one handy bookReview Date: 2007-05-09
The author also provides a no-nonsense introduction to microformats, which you will NOT find on the microformats website.
Excellent book worth reading and referencing.
HTML in its entiretyReview Date: 2007-01-18
There is much to be said about the content that is packed into those 215 pages, so I will give a brief rundown:
The beginning of the book starts out with your basic terminology and background of HTML and XHTML. The author even covers the debated topic of which to use, and how to properly use each type. He discusses XHTML and some of the myths associated with it that seem to make it a `better' technology than HTML. I am glad this was presented in the first few chapters as I think many people have a wrong perception of XHTML. The chapter ended by discussing the anatomy of an XHTML document, including a breakdown of the doctype declaration and its parts.
Now that he got the basics (and some history) out of the way, he dives into the tags available to us - and `using the right tag for the right job.' This chapter is an excellent breakdown of the available tags, their support, and their function/meaning in the context of semantic markup.
The next two chapters discussed marking up tables and forms. Many would think this is an easy task, but for anyone who has built an accessible table - you know how hard it is to make sure you have all of your bases covered. This has also been covered in some other recent books as well, but it is a good thing to hammer home to those who are accustomed to their WYSIWYG and building tables and forms in that environment.
Chapter 5 was definitely my favorite chapter of the entire book. This chapter was devoted to semantics and microformats. I have been using microformats in several recent projects, and am a little obsessed with giving more meaning to my content. The author broke down all aspects of microformats and discussed their structure and the markup used to create them. Everything from hCard, hCalendar, hReview, XFN, rel-, VoteLinks, and XOXO. Reading through each of these chapters challenges you to use these in an array of different ways. He then goes on to discuss the Dublin Core Metadata Initiative and structured blogging (This is a topic for another day all together). Overall, this chapter challenges you to really look deep into your markup and give it structure and meaning - for both your users and the machines reading it.
The book closes out the chapters discussing more detail related to semantics and how to avoid things like span-mania and classitis. This is a final reminder from the author to really give meaning to your content - to create clean, flexible, meaningful, and scalable code without the clutter. The last chapter takes us a step ahead to get a view of what we can expect with the future and XHTML2.0 and Web Applications 1.0.
Overall, this book was a quick read - but well worth every page (even the appendices). If you are a developer that prides yourself on clean markup, this book is still a valuable addition to your library. If you are a developer trying to ween yourself away from a WYSIWYG editor, then this book is a must have. The author does a great job of covering HTML in an exhaustive manner, way beyond what you will find in a basic HTML book.

Highly readable with an effective presentationReview Date: 2006-09-01
It was a good fit for me. The writing is concise, thoughtful, and light-hearted with an under-stated humor that makes you think how nice it would be to sit down and have a chat with the author.
The order of the presentation is very logical, and the integrated teaching of a little XHTML with the CSS to go along with it in every chapter was exactly what I wanted. I had a sense of orderly, steady progress while reading along and doing the exercises, moving from one "baby step" (my word choice) to the next.
What this book teaches, you will learn well. It gives as much depth and coverage of HTML and CSS as I think a single-volume primer should: not too little and not too much. I don't feel intimidated now at all, to pick up Eric Meyer's CSS books or to read through the HTML of popular web pages, to see how they tick.
Sure, there are errata--those are corrected on the author's website. I also wasn't thrilled with Sybex's typesetting and choice of inserts at the front of the book. There are quibbles to be found once or twice in every chapter, but overall this book seems to be a product of experience and careful attention to the presentation.
This book isn't as flashy as some, but it's solid, acceptably up-to-date, and worthy of your time. I recommend it especially for beginners who tend to procrastinate when seeing large tomes and who want to start small but have big ambitions... like me!
A frustrating learning experienceReview Date: 2005-07-18
For example, in chapter 7, learning how to make links, I couldn't get the links from the "blue" page to link to the "yellow" and "green" pages. I followed her instructions to the letter, reading the same paragraphs over and over. Then, after a frustrating hour, I tried experimenting with other things. Turns out, I needed a "./" before the path to the linked file. The book said to use "../" . One "dot" off, and it nearly drove me crazy! Now, this solution isn't consistent with the code for links on the "index.html" page, and they "should" be the same, but they aren't, and I'm more confused than ever.
If this was the only error, I'd not complain, but the book is simply riddled with sloppiness in the details. The book contains a CD for the reader to use to duplicate the exercises in the book. In chapters 4 and 5, the book uses a page about a bridge to teach formatting, inserting images, etc. The book shows page screenshots where the filler text is in English. The pages from the CD sometimes show the filler text in Latin. The author tells the reader where to insert a bit of code in the English text, but the reader working with the page from the CD is left to figure out where in the Latin text is the same place to insert the code. These are just two errors, and there are so many more.
The book uses small fonts and has a lack of whitespace. There are a lot of tips and notes that, while useful to know, interrupt the instructions and break my train of thought. The screenshots are not aligned well with the text. It would have been helpful to actually have arrows pointing to the parts of the screenshot that the code pertains to, but that's not possible because the screenshots on the pages often pertain to text on other pages.
I recently saw "More Eric Meyers on CSS" and was struck by its' beautiful user-friendly layout. It makes learning almost effortless. It made me regret my purchase of this book.
Well writtenReview Date: 2005-12-14
I definitely recommend this book strongly.
A guidebook for the new millenium!Review Date: 2005-05-31
Good book, but has lots of gramatical errorsReview Date: 2005-02-17

Used price: $5.69

A different kind of animalReview Date: 2005-07-25
WAP (Wireless Application Protocol)
I have not successfully used this animal yet but all the elements are there. I have dabbled in wireless communications for quite some time and never found a need to use WML due to the proprietary nature of all the equipment and communication programs. Now I want to venture over the internet and am going to use my web site. This is just for dabbling purposes. So far the book looks strait forward. There is just a slight terminology difference and syntax difference from HTML.
There is even a "Hello World" application. How appropriate.
A Start !Review Date: 2002-02-22
An OK book on an out-of-date technologyReview Date: 2006-10-25
This little book was quite helpful when WML and WMLScript first entered the scene at the turn of the century. It introduced a new technology in a very simple and accessible way as only O'Reilly and Associates can. However, as processing power in handsets increases, it is likely WML will be phased out in the future. Thus at this point it isn't even worthwhile to learn it. I give this book two stars out of respect to how useful it was when it was first published.
Not too little, not too muchReview Date: 2000-12-19
Not too little, not too muchReview Date: 2000-12-19
Related Subjects: XML SGML XHTML SMIL HTML
More Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101
I learned the basics of XHTML very quickly. Now, I am experienced web page builder and don't write codes anymore (I use web page building Applications), but believe me, I open that book almost everyday to refresh my memory.